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Author Topic: Hero Counters.  (Read 3073 times)

Offline [BLD]Kalamity

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Hero Counters.
« on: March 26, 2012, 07:56:08 PM »
what are some good hero's to counter other hero's with?

Offline ShadowsCrush

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Re: Hero Counters.
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2012, 09:25:56 PM »
What hero are you trying to counter?

The game hasn't changed any from dota, the same theory still applies.
Disables counter blinks
Armor counters physical damage
Magic resist and immunity counters magic damage
Heals counter Dot's
Tankiness counters burst
Push counters turtle
AOE counters push
etc
etc


Offline [BLD]Kalamity

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Re: Hero Counters.
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2012, 11:08:36 PM »
Thanks for the information man but I really didn't play the original DOtA that much but i was really wondering what champions could i use to counter other champions in MID lane etc..

Offline ShadowsCrush

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Re: Hero Counters.
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 01:26:47 AM »
all depends which heroes you're referring too
sort of...
when it comes to mid lane player skill factors in immensely, being able to read your opponent and mind game them into where you want them to be or don't want them to be is huge

higher base damage makes last hitting easier

higher hp and armor allows you to take more harassment without getting too worried, meaning you can go in and get 2 or 3 last hits at the cost of being hit a few times

extra mana means you might be able to harass with your abilities more without worrying about not having enough for an escape skill, etc etc

example:
if team A picks Shadow Fiend, and team B picks Nightstalker to go mid, assuming two players of equal skill, you know Shadow Fiend is pretty much screwed

reasoning:
Shadow Fiend has no escape mechanism, his movespeed is pretty awful, and he has god awful starting damage without any souls built up, which leads most people to have his starting items include a few agi slippers, tango, hp pot, branches to make up for the low base damage - consequently, you're still squish, generally under 500 hp, and while he has a decent mana pool, he can't afford to nuke unless its for last hits.

Nightstalker on the other hand has high starting hp, solid base damage, a silence, a slow with a ministun, and MS and AS boost passive.  So long as Nightstalker gets his last hits and denies right early, there's no reason he shouldn't be a level above Shadow Fiend by 5.

Even if SF does well enough that he gets some early last hits, typically you would get bottle to allow yourself to nuke down creep waves for farm, but bottle gives you no stats, meaning you're still dealing with piss poor hp and skillshot nukes, so he's still going to rip you a new one.

This is why it's almost required that you have someone roam mid whenever you have a Shadow Fiend, to give him an early kill or free cs for a while when their mid has to go back and heal or respawn.


Offline [BLD]Kalamity

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Re: Hero Counters.
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 01:28:27 AM »
Thanks man that helps, what do you think about good support and carry classes for a lane? do you have a favorite or anything?

Offline ShadowsCrush

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Re: Hero Counters.
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 03:02:55 AM »
Eh, it tends to vary but a) your playstyle, b) your lane-mate's playstyle,  c) your heroes, and d) opposing heroes

Now, the reason I list heroes last is because the heroes are never hard and fast rules, they may lend better to certain ways of laning, but with the right people you can make some lanes you wouldn't think work, work just fine, and that really comes back to mind games.

With that said, all we can do here is theorycraft on lanes and assume stuff, so we focus more on "stereotypes" of heroes.

My personal favorite support is Lich, too the point where if people are just starting out, I recommend they play Lich first.  He's an easy hero, in the sense that he is fairly self sufficient, but with the proper person playing him, he becomes absolutely devastating, and extremely versatile.
-He can babysit, or solo, and can do extremely well at either.

-Essentially all he needs to bring to lane is HP regen and some basic stat items, either +str or branches, and usually you'll be covering courier or wards, and this is possible because he essentially has infinite mana with extinguish, and this relates back to what I said before about the proper person using him - new players will generally spam his nuke as they get the chance, leading to them being out of mana and waiting on extinguish to come up to have enough mana for another nuke; smart players will nuke as extinguish is about to come off cooldown and a fresh creep wave is approaching so they'll get max mana back from extinguish and be close to full mana in the event they need to start a fight or defend they'll be able to nuke more than once.

-Extinguish is one of the few abilities that can deny creeps from full health, which gives a huge lane advantage.  You'll see many Lich players get Extinguish at level 1, and extinguish a creep immediately as it spawns in base - this means the enemy team only has 3 creeps to get exp from in the first wave, and it also means the creep wave will push your tower, keeping you and your lane mate in safe territory longer.  Also, using extinguish in base on the first wave means it will ready to go again roughly by the time the first wave is about dead and ready to deny the second wave (do this out of exp range of the enemy team as they will still get the partial exp if denied within their range).

-Frost Armor - it's armor, it slows melee attackers, it barely has a cooldown meaning you can armor your entire team, you can armor creeps, it's g'damn amazing.  You can even get crafty with it and armor a creep from the fog as a melee hero is about to attack it to get them slowed and then you and your team pop out to catch them easier.

-Chain Frost : mmmm delicious, and this is where you separate the men from the boys.
Using chain frost becomes an work of art, because while it is based partially on luck, you can tip that luck so far in your favor it becomes barely luck at all, and we roll back around to mind games.  Chain Frost bounces to targets in its AOE at random, so the first thing you realize is, much like Juggernaut's ult, is that if there's creeps around, your odds of hitting heroes are less and less.  However, unlike Jugg, Lich ult NEEDS to bounce to something or it will stop. 

So how do you fix the problem?

Well, to be fair, sometimes you don't have to.  There are certainly times where one or two bounces on a hero are all you need, plus you have your main nuke, but if you want to maximize damage you can wait for one or two creeps left in the wave, and launch at the hero, guaranteeing 1 hit, and technically two.

Other than that, you can lure them into the jungle, making sure it'll bounce just between heroes, and even on top of that, if you can use someone else as bait to make sure the two heroes get nice and close to each other and just devastate kids.

With all that in mind, playing Lich, and playing Lich well makes him fit well into almost any lineup.

And that was only one hero =_=
If you had something specific in mind let me know XD
If you need replays or something just filter my tag,  [vVv]ShadowsCrush
and I think you can filter by hero as well so filter by Lich
there's definitely some losing games in there, but most of them should be pretty solid, and probably most of them have fairly beastly scores, often the same as the carry or higher XD
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 03:07:03 AM by ShadowsCrush »


 


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